technically, it's tomorrow, but we celebrated it today.
@whiteout our clerics multi-class.
@jeremiah yo, I know theosophy refers to the attempt to justify all the evil in the world if there is an omnibenevolent, etc. god, but...
I’m liking theophany day. So, the part of the word ‘theo’ refers to a god and ‘phany’, whose root, possibly, is ‘phanos’ in Greek, I forget the meaning or if it is even a Greek word. Hmmm.
@ProfWorr theosophy and theophany are unrelated. theosophy is a kook new age cult from the turn of the century. Theophany.
Phanos -- "to be manifest" -- theophany "God made manifest".
@jeremiah I know they’re different but you’re wrong about theosophy, regardless of its current form it refers to a very, very old philosophical question
@ProfWorr the literal meaning of theosophy is something like "god-study." It's oldest use is the 17th century, in which it has an orthodox/catholic context.
In the 19th century, a bunch of occult kooks called the Theosophical society formed. The term now refers largely to that. cf. Helena Blavatsky & henchmen.
@jeremiah goes back to the ancient Greeks
@jeremiah in a different form, of course, then formed differently in Latin, let me try to find you the Plato, also (I think) Plutarch’s minor, Aristotle but before these.
@ProfWorr Latin's a fine poetic language, but the last time technical language involve the theo root was confused between Greek and Latin, the church split. If you would, a Greek source would be preferred -- my Latin is mostly shit -- adequate for reading mottos on heraldry and being bemused by the contradiction between peoples names and personalities.
@jeremiah the sophists were a group of philosophers, that word related to, derivation of ‘sophia’ which was stigmatized and became something like vacuous rhetoric, sophistry
@ProfWorr I've also got a classics background, quite aware... i was interested in the prechristian uses of the term theosophy if you can cite some...
@jeremiah you are awesome. This is such a rich realm. Yes, I think I can find w a prior syllabus from a class, NOT I taught, I took. We had this guy Larry Kim at UW who did this stuff
@ProfWorr oh. well, no one's perfect. :-)
@jeremiah we had a few people come over from Harvard, pretty good but we’re reading Greek here, going through the texts. Rigorous, difficult work.
@ProfWorr Perhaps they lack the Christian Advantage(tm) -- the Greek vocabulary of the new testament is pretty small, so if you learn to read it in Greek, then learning Koine is not hard at all. Supplement it with access the spoken language in church (to degrees,) and you're as well prepared as anyone without Greek-speaking parents.
Current Greek is different, but not so horribly different that Koine isn't a fine start for the casual student.
@jeremiah I read Luke, some Matthew, yes, koine (common) Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean. Even in koine, though, you can discern degrees of sophistication. Luke, the physician, for example / more sophisticated. Plato, wow. Homer, categorically different, almost.
@ProfWorr The New Testament was not accidentally written in Greek; I didn't say unsophisticated -- Greek is very... technical? fussy? precise? petulant? in terms of grammar.
In our tradition, this has a lot to do with uniting "Athens and Jerusalem" in the search for the truth that we hold is revealed in the Logos, a Greek term that doesn't translate well or easily.
Homer was archaic Greek. Almost a different language... Like Beowulf vs. Shakespeare vs. John Grisham.
@jeremiah ahhh, yes, logos is very difficult to translate, exceedingly difficult because it can mean so many things in Greek (Plato for example). Word, reasoning (logic), order, etc. Context is needed to see which is meant. in the New Testament it is usually translated as ‘word’? But it means much more than this here.
@ProfWorr which is why it is unfortunate that Constantinople fell and we aren't all Greek speakers today. Christianity would be a whole lot nerdier.
@jeremiah nerdier, HA! better
@jeremiah well, it is less sophisticated, though, simpler, and inevitably so given the need for vastly different languages to speak to each other.
@ProfWorr and i don't mean cite chapter and verse -- just -- if you can remember the book, philosopher(s), school(s) involved, that'd be plenty.
@jeremiah you got it, my friend
@ProfWorr which ancient greeks? I've never heard it used outside of a technical literature in the church. I don't recall it from the classical philosophers, though i seem to remember it popped up in Plotinus (who was concurrent with christian philosophers in Alexandria.)
Can you point me to it?
@jeremiah nice. You know some Greek, then?
@jeremiah oh, there’s a link, theophania oops
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