@blitzed In my particular example of this kind of thing, I get told its “internalized transphobia” when I say that while I face certain challenges and difficulties, I’m not oppressed.

And, well, that’s the end of it because I can deny it all I want, but there is no sense in trying to argue with someone who thinks they can read your mind. :blobshrug:

@shebang @blitzed that's not even what the term "internalized transphobic" means anyways iirc, it refers to internal feelings of self hate surrounding dysphoria

@nik @blitzed Well, their “interpretation” of the tea leaves or whatever is that since I secretly hate myself because I’m trans, I go out of my way to deny the mainstream narrative that all trans people are oppressed helpless victims. Its my way to spread my secret internal self loathing around.

Or something.

Its retarded.

@shebang @blitzed look we're not helpless but there are a lot of systems working against us, i.e. all the bills across the world being introduced to hamper the ability of people to transition, and denying the existence of such problems is idiocy

@nik @blitzed “across the world” there are a lot of people who have a rough time. If someone is making the case that on Planet Earth there are trans people who are oppressed or in bad/unsafe conditions that’s just a fact. But that rarely applies to western countries where these discussions take place.

@shebang @blitzed Hungary just banned changing your gender marker and some 15 us states introduced bills banning helping trans minors

not to mention that the official GOP platform states banning gay marriage again as one of the party's goals https://www.gop.com/platform/renewing-american-values/

@nik @shebang I do not believe minors should be allowed to transition. I have a young nephew who thinks he is a cat at times, and walks around meowing...no he shouldn't be coaxed into plastic surgery to become a kittycat *LOL* say age 18 or 21, sure body mods, knock yourself out.

What you say somewhat reasonable but the people and organisations that carry this out are not

It always transcends the original reason and goes beyond to do fucked up things, all LGBTQ organisations started the same and all of them were co-opted by extremists or corporations to carry out nefarious deeds

Perhaps in a couple years it makes more sense to advocate for the things you want, certainly not now
@blitzed @shebang
@blitzed @nik @shebang focusing in on one point to ignore the fact that the us has a lot of open homophobes in its government, and there are many examples of them using this power to slowly erode civil rights and protections for lgbt people, doesnt help your argument

@essie @nik @shebang just sayin...I wouldn't hinge election upon that one issue, as it does not affect me directly. Some will vote Biden, say he gets in, people get their transition ops, then what? Better have a bazooka for that king of the hill anarchy to follow?

@blitzed @nik @shebang biden is also a cunt, but as much as i hate this culture war shit and how much it defines peoples politics, it does actually affect people, workplace discrimination laws have been eroded, lgbt people can be discriminated against by healthcare organisations that dont want to serve them, federal organisations tasked with dealing w hiv/aids have been dismantled, among plenty of other things

even though to the republicans this is symbolic, its still a material condition change for lgbt people in the us

you’re not getting the anarchist revolution, as much as people wanna believe in it, nothing ever happens, life is just gonna get shittier and shittier and we’re all gonna get broker

@essie @nik @shebang are people really gonna care much about sex anyway, with free-for-all Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome anarchy coast to coast?

@blitzed @nik This is a bit of an irritant of mine, people who aren’t trans or even doctors, having a desire to dictate how our medical procedures should happen.

With the proper tests, we know with high accuracy if a youth or child is actually trans or not. When we are talking about early transition — a life saving procedure in trans people, btw — we aren’t talking about your nephew who likes to pretend they are a cat we are talking about a process with psychologists and doctors who would begin testing and using blockers to delay the effects of puberty which does not harm the person. I’m not talking about letting little Billy just up and get surgery here, I’m talking about proceeding with blockers under the care of medical staff and with a proper diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria. Equating the two, “my newphew thinks he’s a cat” with a recognized and diagnosable medical condition is not the same thing. If you want to bring up that this procedure is often being circumvented by political pressure and woke culture you are certainly correct on this point, but the target shouldn’t be children with G/D but idiot politics and hysterical woke types.

@shebang @nik certainly being stuck in GD must be terrible, but there are the MSM stories about so many who regret goin trans, claiming it is not all it is cracked up to be, and some claim their inside-out wiener, feels in fact like an inside out wiener and they are not a woman. What percent regret? Certainly there have been studies eh?

@shebang @nik Do you think GD is due to previous life incarnated as the opposite sex?

@blitzed @nik Yup!

MSM stories shouldn’t be regarded as accurate. Certainly you are correct, there have been many studies on this.

Transition regret rate appears to be between 0.3% to 3.8% with the note “Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.” (source: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/)

Setting aside the language of “inside out weiner” and just looking to the actual studies presented we have about a 1% regret rate and the number is falling as the procedure continues to improve. (sources: http://www.amsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/CareOfThePatientUndergoingSRS.pdf https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15842032/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24872188/ you will need to run the last two through sci-hub).

@shebang @blitzed @nik For comparison: LASIK has a regret rate of ~5%, give or take.
@allison @shebang @blitzed @nik transition regret is a meme but desistence among trans kids is real and not taken seriously enough

@nik @blitzed Hungary certainly sucks. Poland seems to be going through some bad times with its trans community as well.

Bills like the ones you are suggesting are certainly terrible and hateful bills that should be scorned and almost certainly will be. But any politician can introduce a bill and sometimes they introduce really insane ones. Lets see if they get passed as laws.

The link you sent just says “access forbidden” to me until I brought it up on a VPN from a US location — interesting that non-Americans are not intended to see this. And, I have to admit — you are correct. That’s very interesting, it does specifically refer to pushing marriage laws down to the state level which would, I agree, be a significant error.

But we know what this is, right? Its tossing red meat to the evangelicals. I don’t approve the practice but politics is politics. I don’t approve of the Republicans courting the evangelicals anymore than I approve of the Democrats courting marxists.

A counter point I would make as that while many law makers are living in the past, the vast, vast majority of voters (according to a CBS poll) support us, including 71% of republicans. Put bluntly, that policy isn’t even broadly liked by republican voters.

I’ll bring up that I never said we face no problems. Do you feel like you are oppressed?

@shebang @nik @blitzed i saw poland had some cities declaring themselves lgbt free zones. :blobcatpeekaboo:

i wonder how much of these are legitimately hating lgbts and how much is like, shitty fake movements stealing the lgbt label and using it to push weird agendas and then people are retaliating against those but collateral damaging the regular NAP observing lgbts.

@icedquinn @nik @shebang So is there a rise in far right Christianity or something there? In sharp contrast, I used to live adjacent to Hillcrest in San Diego. Walkin home from work through town, all manner of folks hootin & hollerin partying, I don't see why straight people get so butthurt over it. Can't we all just get along? everything so razorsharp muh politicals these days

@blitzed @nik @shebang i don't blame people for taking offense to schools proposing teaching about anal to small children. lgbt gets blamed for this but i think it's not them doing it, i think they're being used as scapegoats.
@blitzed @nik @shebang that's just an example of the bizzare shit being pushed and then when people backlash they're inadvertently attacking say, the gay couple that just wants to bbq and chill along the way.
@icedquinn @shebang @blitzed @nik

/pol/acks do that all the time, like trying to push the P for pedo into LGBT
@orekix @icedquinn @blitzed @nik @shebang yeah they tried to cancel bisexuality as being transphobic
@shebang @blitzed some of those introduced bills have already passed in state houses (like South Dakota). and idk, I do feel oppressed in some ways, I live in the south and it's always really scary about what if people find out I'm trans, when I started transitioning at work the building security guards (not affiliated with the org I work at) started taking notes on which bathroom I used then the head guard to gave me a "talk" about what bathroom I should be using, etc...
@nik @blitzed @shebang
That doesn't sound legal... my perspective must be too northern
@izarella @blitzed @shebang same, I'm from Illinois where this would have been very illegal

alas not the case in most states
@nik @blitzed @shebang

Doesn't america have some kind of human rights code?
@izarella @blitzed @shebang "it's up to each state to decide things like that" aka "states can decide to be oppressive"
@izarella @nik @blitzed @shebang In theory but the constitution can be interpreted however people want to
@izarella @nik @blitzed @shebang er no, we have a constitution. your rights are to say spicy shit and knife anyone who tries to give you too much sass. :blobcatsurprised:
@nik @izarella @blitzed @shebang Didn't obama make antidiscrimination laws regarding gender and sexuality (maybe some other stuff but I am almost sure this was the case)? Did the reps in house erode those? because from what I can tell that's federal law that the supreme court voted on (my memory is failing me god obama was ages ago)
@coyote @blitzed @izarella @shebang Obama admin made laws for anti discrimination within federal programs (like the affordable care act) but not otherwise

@nik @coyote @blitzed @izarella Worth noting is that protection for trans people came only recently, technically speaking, from the recent supreme court ruling.

@shebang why did you ask me if i was oppressed with the tone implying i wasnt, then never responded to my example of such?

@nik I think I just got lost in the mix of other replies as I had to look and pull up various sources for claims I was making elsewhere in the thread and lost track of things for a bit there. I think I liked the post you are referring to and intended to come back to it but got distracted.

How about I say this, there are perhaps more challenges in certain parts of the USA than I had expected.

For example, I’m not at all passable, people can tell I’m trans despite my best efforts, and I’ll never be able to afford the facial fem (yup — not covered in Canada) that would help with that. Tough luck and its not at all fair that my government doesn’t think that my ability to integrate as smoothly as possible into society isn’t important. But that’s not the same as oppression. People are occasionally rude to me and as a result I tend to be very shy and generally avoid going out when I can. That sucks, and its not fair — but its also not the same as oppression.

Oppression refers to using restrained or suppressed somehow. This is not the case.

However — I do think that having G/D treated as a “minor” condition that can be partially treated and then just left incomplete — whether this is under a federal healthcare program or a private insurance program — is a injustice that I recognize.

(side gripe: Trudeau, the “great ally” of the LGBT community, hasn’t made any steps to remedy this in two terms in office. Some ally.)

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